In this episode of Early Childhood Chapters, we sit down with early childhood expert, author, and speaker Kathy Lee Eggers to explore the importance of play-based learning and why reclaiming childhood is more urgent than ever.
Kathy shares insights from her decades of experience working with young children, writing books, and developing curricula that prioritize sensory-rich, hands-on experiences. She discusses the dangers of pushing academic expectations too early, how play supports brain development, social-emotional skills, and creativity, and what parents and educators can do to foster a true love of learning.
Key Topics Discussed:
✅ The role of sensory play in language, emotional regulation, and cognitive growth
✅ How screens and structured learning are eroding childhood—and what we can do about it
✅ The science behind play-based learning and why movement, exploration, and creativity are essential
✅ Why early academic pressure (like worksheets and pre-K readiness packets) may be doing more harm than good
✅ Tips for teachers constrained by standards—how to advocate for play in structured environments
✅ The importance of adult learning—how parents, teachers, and administrators can shift mindsets to support whole-child development
Resources Mentioned:
📚 The Homegrown Preschooler – Kathy’s foundational book on play-based early childhood learning
🎙️ Podcasts: Gray Roots (for multigenerational learning) & Play Skillfully with Kathy Eggers
🌐 Website: KathyEggers.com
Episode Transcript
Emily Garman: Kathy Lee Eggers, welcome to early childhood chapters. Thank you so much for joining me today. Oh, my gosh, thanks for having me, Emily. Yeah. Something that you mentioned when we were just talking before we started recording was the main purpose of everything that you've done across all of your books and your body of work and your speaking is to cultivate this idea of a play based childhood of wonder. And that is such a beautiful thing to me. Can you tell me a little bit more about what that means to you?
Kathy Lee Eggers: Absolutely. So if you follow me at all, you know, I had a big crush as a little girl and that big crush happened to be Mr. Rogers. And I used to watch Mr. Rogers with passion every day. And I so connected to the message that he had to say that children were valued, that childhood was important, that it was full of pretend and feelings were important. And it's interesting from a TV show that I really gathered my life's work. I mean, it became my purpose, really, is how can I impact children and the best way to impact children?
Because I have a love, Emily. If I walk into a room--I did this recently, walked into a room. There's probably 25 adults. One little girl. I'm immediately going straight to that little girl. There's something about a child that is magical. It is magical to me. And I think Mr. Rogers instilled that in me.
And so when I think of childhood, I think kids get one chance at it, right? And especially today, it is almost being ripped away so quickly from them. It is like when we say it's fleeting, it's fleeting. You almost can just see it being wiped out from under them. And so I really feel like it's part of my mission here on this earth to fight for childhood, to fight for wonder, to fight for play, to let them just be little.
Let them be little. There's something in that in itself. We don't even have to do a lot other than to let them and say yes to them, because their brains are brilliant just as they are. We don't have to really do much except to offer the opportunity of wonder to them. So if you can tell I’m a little bit passionate about it, absolutely.
Emily Garman: You do that with the children. I usually do that. If there's a dog in the room, I'll go right for the pet. That's good. Yeah, I think a lot of your books, the books you've written for Gryphon House, certainly, go towards cultivating that because, let's face it, our kids’ childhoods these days are filled with screens and very sedentary activities.
So the things that you talk about in your books are inspiration and ideas and ways to cultivate that joy and that wonder and engage kids in “kid stuff” for just a little bit longer.
Kathy Lee Eggers: Sensory rich, like I always tell parents, if you don't know what to do with your children, offer something for them to touch. It can be shaving cream in the bathtub, it can be a bowl of water. It can be making Play-Doh. But by offering sensory and offering it often, you really are doing so much for the child's brain. You're doing so much for their central nervous system. You're doing so much, even for language skills, because they are often talking so much more when their hands are involved in sensory. It's the one thing that I think everyone, teacher parents alike, need to hear about children.
And yes, my first book I wrote when I was 30, I mean, I was still a baby, and it is all activities that you have the stuff in your home or in your classroom already. It's not anything that you have to go on by. It doesn't involve any fancy parts. It literally is grab some cornstarch, grab some water, grab some flour, grab some baby oil and you can make all these sensory experiences for children.
Emily Garman: I think it's just the best thing you can do. If you want to impact a child's future, offer them lots of sensory experiences and those are fun things to do with kids. Honestly. I mean, some of the most fun I've had is as my daughter was growing up and we would make squishy things and Play-Doh, and we'd get out the sand and the shaving cream.
Kathy Lee Eggers: That's fun for grown ups to do with their kids. Not only fun, it also calms your nervous system. It's interesting when I go out and speak to teachers often, I'll do a hands on workshop because I love to get the teachers involved to see what are we talking about. And it's funny, I'll make herbal Play-Doh, vanilla chai tea. I brew that into the water and get it smelly and delicious and delightful. Well, I'll offer it to the teachers as I'm speaking, and I'll look around the room while I'm standing on the stage. And they are manipulating that dough and they are just engaged. It's funny. It helps us all focus better, to be honest. So not only is it fun to play with your kids, but our brains are thanking us as well, so it's a win win.
Emily Garman: Why do you think there is this push? You've written a book called The Homegrown Preschooler, it's about kind of that time before kids might start formal schooling or continue on in homeschooling. And you're talking about really preserving this as a time of just free, open ended play and exploration. But I see certainly with my own child and even more, in younger children now, preschool, even pre-K, kindergarten, we're already looking at college prep, practically, we're doing math worksheets and stuff when these kids are three and four years old, there's pre-K readiness packets for kids to do over the summer. Why are we doing that?
Kathy Lee Eggers: I think somewhere along the way, it was said that earlier must be better, right? It just must be. That's common sense. However, I'm not sure whoever originally said that understood brain development, because if you study brain development, you will see that the brain requires it to be in the hand before it can be in the brain.
So it needs the information to be presented in a concrete manner. And so if our children are not getting information in that concrete manner, for example, give them an apple, give them the real apple, not a picture of the apple on your screen. Let them touch the apple, smell the apple, taste the apple. They understand that concept. That apple that lays the foundation for everything built on it later.
But without that, the brain actually has to do a workaround. It's almost like a stroke victim. Like a stroke victim has to do a work around to retrain the brain for what it was. And that's what happens when you offer abstract information to a child too early. The brain can receive their information, but it does not receive the information with ease.
That's a huge problem for kids. That's why we get kids who are frustrated, kids who are full of anxiety, kids who don't want to go to school. That's the real difference. And why you want to offer this play-based, concrete information early. Instead of pushing those worksheets.
Emily Garman: And it seems like even though we are seeing more and more research supporting that schools are taking away recess and they're eliminating art and music programs, even though research tells us that kids need that to do better academically, it's disheartening.
Kathy Lee Eggers: It really is disheartening. And listen, I'm not one that says homeschooling is the only way. You'll never hear me say that. I think there's so many great ways to educate young children. However, I do see that is one of the reasons in the field of homeschooling that people lean that direction is because they want children to have that outside time.
They value the importance. I mean, we see, we see for ourselves. If I'm required to sit at a desk all day without getting out—right now I am fortunate enough; I look outside my window at a lake. Right now. I can see the beautiful water, but if I don't take the time to walk out there, get that fresh air? Man, it really affects my work.
Think about our children who really need to move their bodies. They are developing so many muscles so early and when we restrict that and then we question, I wonder why my child has discipline issues? Wonder why we’re in the principal's office all the time is because we're requiring things that they are not developmentally ready for. We collectively need to understand that children must move, and that movement impacts their brain, and it is beneficial to their brain.
Emily Garman: And when we restrict that movement, we really are keeping them from learning at their best. It makes so much sense. Going into that, I'd like for you to tell me a little bit more about your curriculum that you've developed. It's called A year of Playing skillfully. And that seems to incorporate all of these things that we have been talking about.
Kathy Lee Eggers: And it can be used by homeschoolers, but also by preschools and in schools who teach at groups of kids. Yes. Well, here's the thing. Listen, we understand in the child development world that you've got to develop a child in every area: socially, emotionally, cognitively, physically. So many people think, oh, we're just going to focus on academics. And we see it, right?
Don't we see unfortunately, our kids today, their social emotional skills are struggling. They don't have the confidence. They don't have the coping skills. So when we developed A Year of Playing Skillfully, we said, let's offer something that covers all of those areas. So we have very intentional activities for social emotional. We have things to develop character traits like help a child learn to be thankful, help a child learn to be, kind.
Let's be intentional about that character trait. Let's include some language arts, but let's understand that it needs to be developmentally appropriate. We're not going to focus so much on teaching letters. We're going to teach them to fall in love with words. We're going to teach them to read, to read by learning that words have power, we're going to make books together.
So everything is play based. It's open and developmental. We work along with children ages 3 to 7 because really, you just need to know to do something like what's next? Progress them. It's not perfection. We're not trying to reach an end goal here. We're just trying to move them to the next step developmentally so you can reuse our curriculum year after year.
We have many families, many programs who use our curriculum for several years in a row. So it's well worth the money. But it all started with the book The Homegrown Preschooler, because in The Homegrown Preschooler, we give you some ideas that you can create this for yourself for your school. We also give you, tools to make your own sensory table, your own plexiglass easel.
We give you the why behind why child development is so important in those early years. So it really is. You know, The Homegrown Preschooler is kind of a “how to,” it's the why we do this. And then we went on to develop a year of playing skillfully as if, okay, I love this concept. Now I need the details. So it's more of the details for you.
Emily Garman: I love what you said about families being able to use this over multiple years, because I think something that school can forget also, or there's not room for in schools, is that kids develop at different rates. There are you're not necessarily going to be doing x, y, z by the time you're 7 or 6 or 5.
People are different. We're all different. We grow and learn things in different ways at different rates. And it seems like this kind of attitude toward education leaves more room for that. And also, since we're all creating things in different places and different ways, less opportunity for children to compare and contrast to each other.
Kathy Lee Eggers: Yeah, it's like the one room schoolhouse mentality. It's like the multi-age grouping in a child development center. 3 to 5 year olds together. Why do we do this? Because we know that kids naturally learn from each other. We know that you might have a child socially who is more like a five year old. But you know, maybe with their language arts they're more like a three year old.
So it does help build confidence, allows leadership skills to develop and allows, like you said, there's no comparison there, allows them the freedom to just be to just be where they are and not say, okay, you have failed because you didn't reach this. It's just say, try this, let's do this next. And what if we added that? And so it really does give a child permission to just explore at their level without an expected end result.
That really is what process based, play based learning is. It's to be open ended, to set up an environment, to invite children in and let them take it from there. But I think as adults we are so used to, we must have an end result. We must have a way to measure this. So we put that pressure on a child when really most of them are not developmentally ready.
You know, in the in the US we expect kids to all be reading by five or we put them in a remedial reading program when we know the brain really doesn't receive reading with ease until somewhere between 7 and 9 nine.
Like my my child of all my kids. And if you don't know, I have a lot of children. My youngest, academically, he would blow most people out of the water, but he did not read well until he was almost nine. Now, within a week, two weeks, three weeks, I mean, he was reading everything because he was ready, and he's killing it in college now. But you know what didn't happen? His self-esteem was not crushed.
That's the difference with reading. It's not when a child learns to read, it's how much they love it. Because if we can help a child fall in love with reading, man, we've accomplished the world. In my opinion, because they can do so much if they love reading. But in the US, man, we squelch it. We squash it fast because we have expectations and they must meet those expectations.
So that's what I do In A Year of Playing Skillfully, I give you permission to let the child take it, be who they are, where they are, and hopefully fall in love with learning.
Emily Garman: So what kind of advice do you have for, say, a classroom teacher? They're hearing this certainly not for the first time. They understand this, but they're constrained. I feel that teachers are very constrained in their classrooms these days to meet specific standards, to do certain things by certain times, to meet all these deliverables that are prescribed by their administration, by their school district, by the parents of their students.
So if a teacher who also doesn't have, you know, any money to spend on things wants to try corporate more of this kind of attitude toward learning, whether they're teaching pre-K or fourth grade, what are some things that they can do? I know that's a broad question, but it it's a shift in the way of thinking more than anything else.
Kathy Lee Eggers: Listen, I always say, if you're going to educate children, you've got to begin with educating the adults in their lives. You really do have to work hard at helping the people around the children understand what you're doing. And that's work. And that's exhausting work. Sometimes I remember when I used to be a director of a child development center.
I was in an area in downtown Atlanta. Most of our kids moved on to private schools, very rigid private schools. So we had a lot of expectations to get in there early and get them ready, and I just wasn't going to budge. I mean, I just wasn't going to budge from what I know to be true and to be successful and to be research based.
So what I did is I had a night where I invited our parents in this school, and we said, we're going to have a night, a parents night out. Well, they thought that I meant, hey, you're going to babysit our kids, and we're going to go have some wine and cheese. And I'm like, no, no, we're going to come in and I want you to see what we're doing.
So what we did is we set up our classrooms with a lot of open ended, play based activities. We didn't tell the parents how to dress because we wanted to kind of touch on--I don't know about where you are, but where we were in Georgia, if kids came to a preschool, often they were in like their very expensive smock dresses.
And I mean, it’s the South, right? They were all not ready for play. They were not ready for crafts. So anyway, we didn't tell them how to dress. We invited them in. I think it was life changing for these families, because when they got to get in there and touch those things for themselves, it did two things. Number one, they remembered.
They remembered childhood for themselves, and you help them kind of pull back their layers of responsibility, of expectations. And they got to be involved in that. And light bulbs went on. And so once we did this and we started doing it annually, it became a favorite thing in my program where parents looked forward to it. And of course, the next year they started dressing appropriately.
They were not in their suits. They were showing up in their sweats. But you've got to work and be creative in educating the adults. Now, if you're in a public school system, fourth grade, it's a little bit trickier, right, because you are dealing with administration. But I'm here to tell you, then, you might need to make some hard choices, like where are you going to work?
Where are you going to be involved? Is there somewhere else where you can use what you believe in? Will they give you any freedom within the expectations? I don't know, because it's challenging to work and I have. I've worked for people who didn't believe the same way I did. And ultimately I had to make the choice to leave because I just, I believe it in my core that children need the opportunity to have a sense of wonder.
They need an opportunity to discover it for themselves and experience it for themselves. And if you're in a classroom that doesn't give a child that opportunity, it's going to be real difficult. It's going to be difficult. But if you've got people who will listen, if you have a director who will listen, give her my phone number. I'll chat with her, him.
We'll talk. If you got someone willing to learn. Because I'm still willing to learn. Even though I've been working with young children for over 30 years, I still don't know it all and I still want to learn more. Then go for it. Be willing to learn with them. Say, let's go take a class together. Let's find a conference that's about developmentally appropriate practices, and let's do it together.
You'll be surprised. Some people are open to that, even ones you don't think, you know, one of the best things I did, you probably have I'm guessing you haven't heard of a lady named Bev Bos. Have you ever heard of her?
Emily Garman: I have not.
Kathy Lee Eggers: Wow. Bev Bos changed me as a young director. I flew out to California. She was putting on a conference in her preschool, and I flew out there because I wanted to see what was happening in her preschool. I had heard her talk at NAEYC, and she was all about truly child-led, play based. I mean, even more so than I was at the time. So I flew out to her school and went to this conference, and watching the children truly have input on their learning, blew my mind.
I mean, these kids had hammocks where they could read books. They had a water hose that was just right there in their backayrd and their playground where they could use it any time they wanted. I mean, they had freedom to really explore, discover, experience. And boy, did they have a sense of wonder about learning. And that changed me.
So I think if you can encourage the leaders to attend some sessions, maybe they too will be changed. I think you have to go with that. That was a long answer. Sorry, but, I think it's possible. I think it's possible.
Emily Garman: Well, in that attitude you mentioned, even though you've been doing this for 30 years, you're still interested in learning more and you've got an open mind to new ideas. And we are learning more about brain development than we did 30 years ago. So we are learning more. And I think any teacher or administrator surely, hopefully would say that that's the the goal in educating children, right? To have thinking adults, to create adults who can think critically about things. And that's what we hold information and, and make choices based on the information they're given.
Kathy Lee Eggers: And be open minded. And, this kind of education in the early days leads to that kind of adult. It does. It really does. When you give children the chance to figure it out for themselves.
One of the most fascinating things I remember, I have on this turtle on. I love this color, and I remember I had a color mixing kit out with a little girl, and she was telling me how much she loved this color.
And I'm like, wow, I wonder if we could make this color with the color mixing kit. And so she took all the colors out and she was trying and she couldn't quite get it right. And then she decided she could add some clear water to it and it would lighten up the color. And sure enough, she got the exact color of this bead, the way her face lit up when she figured that out.
That's what every child needs to have the opportunity to do. That's how you're going to develop critical thinkers when you give them permission. They've got it in there. What's so sad is, kids are born curious. It's the adults who squelch that. Well, I hate that. I want us to be the ones that just spur them on and encourage curiosity, because that curiosity leads to critical thinking.
Emily Garman: Let's talk about parents and families for a little bit, because I know a lot of your work is with parents and families. You offer coaching and workshops for this group of people, not just teachers and education professionals. And something that I think drives parents more than more than just about anything else these days. Is social media.
You know, we try to keep our kids off of Instagram and Snapchat and all the latest social media things, but we are on there, and we're constantly seeing our friends’ pictures of their perfect families and their perfect holiday meal and their perfect Christmas card and their perfect vacation and all of these things. And maybe something that their child has achieved, maybe they're posting their kids test scores or they're so proud of this college their child got into, or that Jimmy got a 100 on his spelling test.
And we compare ourselves to those other parents; compare our child to their children. And so instead of remembering that this is all fake, we all just put the best version of ourselves out there that's not really authentic or real, but also that it instead of making us realize that it's making us kind of double down on, well, I've got to do better. I've got to be more. And it's just destroying our lives.
Kathy Lee Eggers: I think, that makes me so sad. Like, as you were saying, that all I could think about is I just want to grab a mom and hug her or dad because I think we we talk about the moms a lot, but I think our dads feel that pressure to think anyone who's parenting children feels that pressure.
Here's the thing. Number one, it is not a sprint. This parenting gig is a marathon. Some days do look beautiful. Some days are. Oh, my gosh, I should probably walk in. I mean, it is chaos. My house was like that. People think, you know. Wow. I want to hear, like, I love to ask my children, how was your childhood? Was it really like your mom says? And my kids will say, listen, my mom? Yeah, we we got to play and have fun, but she lost it sometimes. She was not perfect. And I'm not perfect. You know, I tell people I'm a hot mess. I mean, if you hang out with me more than five minutes, you will figure out I am a hot mess, but I am willing to be a hot mess.
I am willing to say that is okay, because here's what's important about parenting. The connection you have with your child. That is really the only thing that's going to be left when they grow up, okay, is that connection and the relationship. And so it doesn't matter if you homeschool, it doesn't matter if your child goes to private school, public school, if you put the relationship on the back burner, that's where the regret should be coming in.
So instead of focusing on the picture, like I don't post a ton of stuff about what? Like I don't even know that I posted a Thanksgiving picture this year. I don't even know if I did, but I was present with my kids. I would encourage you to be present. That's the thing that's going to matter is your relationship.
You be available. When my son Henry, he's now 18, but when he was about eight, it's about when, you know, we really ramping up on our phones. I remember I was on my phone and he looked at me and he said, mom, can you put your phone down, so I know we're connecting. What? Can you put your phone down so I know we're connecting?
Put your phone down. That's the number one advice. If you're on social media, I don't want you to put your phone down so you'll stop comparing. I want you to put your phone down so you can connect with your child before it's too late. Because if you don't connect with them when they're two, three, four, and five, I'm here to tell you when they're 15, 16, 17, they're not going to have time to connect with you.
Then it's going to be too late. You're not going to be the safe person for them to go to if you're not the safe person when they're having their meltdown at two. It matters. That matters more.
I feel like that's my top moment. I mean, I just yeah, I feel like that's the natural ending. No, no, I mean, it's heavy, but but I mean it with love. I mean, it's so good when you do, like, I, I'm living it. I'm living with college kids who call me to tell me mundane things because I'm the person they want to call because I was showing up when they were two, three, four and five.
So it's worth it. It's worth it. So I wasn't trying to mic drop, but I am passionate about it.
Emily Garman: It's really interesting how all of the things that that you have done throughout your life, you've been a teacher, you've been a parent. Sounds like you've homeschooled your kids for some period of time. All has led you to becoming somebody who has a great deal of expertise across all of these areas, but they all circle back to having space for authentic experiences and relationships as a child.
Kathy Lee Eggers: 100%. Yeah.Listen, again, it's why I do this. Because somewhere in me, I just have to believe it's my purpose. I fell in love with children at a really young age. From babysitting to playing with cousins. And I got a peek at the magic. I think I got to see what it looks like. And now I am determined that every kid gets an opportunity to have that magic.
Emily Garman: So let's talk a little bit about the different ways you are available to help folks. So you have your books, you have your curriculum. You also do a lot of speaking and consulting. So if someone's having a conference or professional development, you also do personal coaching with parents, with teachers who want to do more one on one experience.
Kathy Lee Eggers: You are so great. Thank you for that. Listen, I, back in the day was a NAEYC mentor, I've been a director and a teacher. Love the early childhood world. I mean, I've been a speaker, got to meet Mr. Rogers when I spoke in Toronto, many years ago before he passed away.
Emily Garman: You got to meet your crush!
Kathy Lee Eggers: Highlight of my life, I know. So so thankful for that. I love to speak in front of people because again, I want everybody to hear that kids deserve this magical childhood. So you can do that. I'd love to speak at a conference, a retreat in your classroom. Whatever I do, consult for schools, for families.
I have a website, kathyeggers.com, and all of that information is there. You can reach out to Rachel who books my events for me. She'll be happy to try and schedule that. Listen, you can shoot me an email, DM me on Instagram, I will respond. It's Play Skillfully with Kathy Eggers on all social media.
I want to be there for you because no one can impact the kids, your kids, like you can, or the kids in your classroom like you can. So if I can impact you, then that's a step forward. Step towards that goal of helping those kids. So I'm happy to do it in any way possible.
Podcasts, I have a couple podcasts. I have a new one for grandparents and that multi-generational relationship, called Gray Roots. And then also Play Skillfully with Kathy Eggers. So a couple podcasts, but I love being on yours because I’ve been working with Gryphon House for many, many years since I was a young’n. And so, I love supporting Gryphon House and what you're doing.
Thanks so much for having me. I loved being here with you.
Emily Garman: Thank you very much, Kathy.
