In this inspiring episode, Emily Garman interviews MaryAnn Faubion Kohl, a trailblazer in early childhood art education and an advocate for process art. With over 20 books published and decades of experience, MaryAnn shares her passion for empowering children to explore and create without fear of judgment or comparison. From her groundbreaking 1985 book Scribble Art to her continued advocacy for open-ended creativity, MaryAnn discusses the importance of honoring children’s self-expression and the lifelong skills they develop through process art.
What You’ll Learn:
What Is Process Art? The difference between process-driven creativity and product-focused crafts, and why letting children explore materials leads to deeper learning.
Supporting Social-Emotional Growth: How process art fosters confidence, independence, and resilience by encouraging children to value their own creative journey.
Practical Tips for Educators and Parents: Learn how to set up an art area, encourage conversations about children’s work, and communicate the benefits of process art to parents.
Art as Communication: How art becomes a language for children to express emotions, tell stories, and share their thoughts in ways words cannot.
Encouraging Older Children: Strategies for sustaining creativity and curiosity in older children, even as societal pressures to focus on “good” or “finished” products increase.
Episode Transcript
Emily Garman: Welcome to Early Childhood Chapters, the podcast from Gryphon House Books. I'm your host, Emily Garman. Joining us today is the one and only MaryAnn Faubion Kohl. MaryAnn has been at the forefront of innovation in children's art education for decades, starting with the publication of her book Scribble Art in the mid-1980s.
She encouraged educators and parents to think differently about how we were “doing” art with young children, and argued that the process of creating art was much more important in the child's development than the end result.
MaryAnn gives workshops, consults with companies all over the world, and has published more than 20 books about children's art, many of them award winners. MaryAnn, I'm thrilled to have the chance to talk to you today. Thanks for joining us.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: Well, first of all, thank you for having me today. I'm so happy to be part of your podcasts. And I'm an old Gryphon House admiration society person, and Kaplan, so this is great. And what you just said pretty much nails it: what is process art? It's really so different than the products where the teacher sets up an example and says, let's all make this. It's more of, here are the materials. Let me see you explore and discover what these materials can do. And of course, as the teacher or the parent, we're in charge of what materials are available. So we kind of have an idea of what might happen, but process art is child-driven, and crafts and product art, are adult-driven. So where is a child going to learn the most?
It's through their own discoveries and their own experimentations, and there's no model to copy, which was a big change for me as a teacher. When I stopped doing this adorable thing and putting it up, and then all the kids had to make what I made, and then you hear, “oh, Mrs. Kohl, mine doesn't look like yours!” or “I don't know how to make it. I want to make what you made!” So we had to get away from that.
As the teachers and as the adults, as part of this, it's a big change from coming up with products and little crafts. But our job is to give permission to the children to be creative, not to copy us, but to copy their own thinking. So process art is child-driven.
Emily Garman: I think that also comes back to the idea of is my art “good?” With my own child, anyway, sometimes she will draw something and she'll say, “well, this isn't very good.” But to me, art is never good or bad. It's the fun you have and the experience you have making it. If we're focused on, well, is it good? That's really missing the whole point.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: So that is something that, you know, I started teaching back in, okay, way back in the 70s, and it was a time of, what they called “open education.” And it's kind of like what I'd like to see right now. That's another topic. But, yes, kids would often say, “I don't know how to draw a cat” or “mine’s not any good” or whatever. They also might say, “do you love it, do love what I made?” And of course I do. I love everything that they make, but I will always turn that conversation around and say I might say, “Do YOU love it?” Or “what do you like about what you've done?” Or I'll say, “oh, look at that little red squiggle. Why did you do that?” I mean, the questions are more like bringing it out of the child, not putting my evaluations on it.
Emily Garman: Something that that teachers and education professionals talk a lot about with kids today is social-emotional learning and resilience. And I think this idea of a child always saying to an adult, do you like it? Is this good? Is this better than so-and-so's art, they are seeking validation from someone else instead of “I am pleased with this, I enjoyed making it and that is enough.”
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: And even on the other side of “I enjoyed making it,” is “I was trying to make orange, but look, I got brown.” And they’re disappointed in their discovery. And that’s when I will turn that around too, and say, “well, let’s see. What did you start with, you wanted orange, maybe I can talk with you about that.” But mostly, they don’t go into great details about what they’ve made.
Although, my favorite thing is when I say, very simply, “tell me about your art, tell me about your work.” And there are kids who will start a story about the elves in the forest, and how the storm came and the dog was lost, and all you’re looking at is these colors blending in, and thinking, “Wow, there is a lot going on in your artwork! And I love that.
I think we need the word “respect.” You know, we all want to be respected. Well, let’s respect their art, let’s respect their creativity, and give permission for them to pick up those materials. Oh look, I’ve got a little paint dabber, let’s see, oh, dab, dab, dab, I’m making little circles, and then they put their finger on it, oooh, I can smear it. It’s all about discovery, experimentation and exploration. And isn’t that eventually the kind of adult we want in our society? Someone who can think? Someone who can evaluate their own work, their own life, and make changes?
Emily Garman: And is confident. Confident enough to do that. To say I'm confident in myself. That I feel comfortable exploring and trying new things. And I think if you don't have that conversation--I love that question. “Tell me about your work” is so respectful and so simple and it will get them talking. How different is that than to say “good job” or “that is so nice. I really like your picture.” No conversation there. And when we're looking at all the other things that we're trying to develop in very young children: language development, pre literacy, mathematics, all of that starts with having conversations, talking about things to each other.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: You should be doing this podcast for me, because you’re saying everything I want to say! It’s so true, Emily. We want the kids to have the confidence to dig into those materials. And it translates, to, you know, there’s a kind of a thing now with loose parts, and it’s the same thing. Or with kids that have a big set of blocks and they start maneuvering them and making things, or just stacking them to see if they’ll stand straight.
We don’t go in (well we CAN, and people do) and say, do it this way. Let them find out what's working and what's not working, or if it's just very inspiring for them. And they're just like, wow, I made the tallest tower! and you might make the tallest wood sculpture in your art area. So yes, it's it's all about them. And our job is to be a guide.
Emily Garman: One thing I've noticed about this process. This is something that I've always believed in and practice with my own child, who is nine years old now. And she is an artist. I mean, this kid. I don't know where she gets it because I don't have this skill. But she is an artist and from a very young age she's called herself-- she'll tell people “I'm an artist.” And when she was little, one two years old, just the joy in the process. She could play in shaving cream. And we weren't even creating a “product” like we talked about. We weren't making anything to put on the fridge. We were just playing with paint or clay or materials, and she had just great joy in that process.
But as she's gotten older, I see this among her and her classmates. There's more pressure. I don't know if it comes from teachers or from themselves to create something that is “good,” or something that's a “product” rather than the process. So how can we help older kids maintain this joy in the experience?
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: Well, if they’ve had a rich early childhood, where they’ve been able to really explore materials, they are going to have a lot of knowledge about paint and how it acts, and knowledge about doughs and little sculptures and things like that. They’ve experienced so much, they kind of are ready for more, once they’ve hit third grade or so. It always depends on the child.
So how do we encourage older kids? Let’s say the teacher says, we're making a snow globe, and it's going to be a circle of white paper. And so the teacher could say, okay, everyone's going to put a little snowman and we're going to sprinkle some fake snow on it with glue.
Or, you could have some materials out that don’t say, “do it this exact way.” It’s still going to be a snow globe, but in the globe is what the child thought of putting in. And it might be with markers or crayons or collage materials. The point is to keep encouraging their individual creativity, where it’s still honored, still respected, but it can fit in to products that they are proud to show.
Or, for many kids, it’s still difficult to be proud, because they are still evaluating themselves, and saying “it’s not as good as that,” or “my mom likes it when I do this,” or “my big brother says it’s terrible.” So at that age they do start to have challenges of whose input they are hearing. And hopefully going back to that word you used, confidence, if they’ve developed the confidence with art materials, they are not going to have quite the challenges that some kids have who are so afraid of disappointing someone else.
Emily Garman: One thing I hear about education these days is that sometimes parents can make things a little bit more difficult for teachers. We'll just say that. And how does a teacher manage, when they want to do this kind of work in their class, whether they're teaching two year olds or eight year olds, but the parents are saying, “but I want it to bring home the the handprint turkey for Thanksgiving, and I want stuff to hang on the fridge and I want stuff to put on Instagram.” How can teachers talk to families about why this is important and why, even though they may want to bring something home, it's not really the best experience for the kid to generate products all the time to send home.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: And it is fine to do crafts, I call them “cutesy crafts,” they are cute, and they are fun, and generally parents love them. But they haven’t heard the entire story about why exploring and discovering is so important, even as kids grow.
Okay, the handprint turkey. I personally think everyone needs a handprint turkey in their lives. I have one I saved and get out every year. And they are almost rites of passage, you know, and they're fine. But it shouldn't be your every day classroom or home art.
I think the real question, though, is the parents want to see often--not all parents--want to see something, a finished product. It makes them feel good. It makes them feel like their child is successful. They're very worried that their child isn't going to be learning enough, and so they want to see proof of it.
So it comes down to educating the parents, and it depends on what kind of group you have. But I often will do a parent night and set up process art, maybe 3 or 4 or 5 different projects for them to go through, and it's really funny with the adults, they're like holding it up. “Mrs. Kohl, do you like what I made?”
You know, it's just like the kids! These are perfect examples for me to say, “well, do YOU like it? What do you like about your art?” And kind of do that role modeling of how this all works. And I don’t think it hurts to put up little signs here and there. Like if you’re displaying art, make a little sign next to one of the process art experiences that says, “your child learned problem solving today.” “Your child learned self-expression today.” I think it helps to honor those skills, rather than the finished product. Let the parents know what skills are being met.
Emily Garman: That's something teachers and parents are facing more today. You know, when I was in preschool, you went to preschool for a couple hours, and you colored and you drew and you played with blocks, and then you went home. But now it's all about “kindergarten readiness,” and, “are we preparing our child to read when they're four?” And “are they going to go to Harvard?” And and so getting back to that, tying it in with particular skill development is useful in today's educational environment, like you said.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: And I think it’s important to know what’s really happening, and not just say, “oh, they’re playing.” The word “play” can put people off, but really, that is the magic word for children. They are playing, and their brain is working on all these things that we can’t see. So if we know what’s going on, it really helps and we can communicate it better. It’s a lot of pressure for educators who aren’t used to what process art is. But really, there’s research that shows that blank paper and crayons, say, at the process art table in the corner, a chid drawing uninterrupted by an adult, will do better in other academic skills if they’ve had the opportunity to draw uninterrupted.
Emily Garman: And this is something that any teacher can do. Any parent can do. Doesn't cost a lot of money. And you don't have to be an artist yourself. I think that's something that might hold people back. Well, I can't teach kids about art because I don't know how to do art. I'm not an artist,
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: You know, that crosses my path, I would say not exactly daily, but often, that someone will say, “oh, but MaryAnn, you’re an artist,” or “this is MaryAnn, she’s an artist,” well, excuse me, but I can barely paint an apple on a piece of paper! But I’m really good at encouraging children to use art materials.
Okay, I did love drawing as a kid. But in the 50s (yes, that’s when I was in school!), we hardly ever had art. I remember one day they did sponge painting at the back table, and I almost lost my mind, I’d never seen anything so exciting! With the toothpick on the little square sponge. And the teacher had drawn trees on paper, and we got to add the autumn leaves in orange and yellow. I made one, and I asked if I could do another one, and I was told no, it’s someone else’s turn. And as a kid who was eventually going to love exploring with art materials, it was painful! But at least I did discover sponge painting at an early age.
Emily Garman: I would imagine in your career spanning all this time of your life, you've seen education change, and trends come and go, and more research become available. What do you see? What are the biggest changes you've seen in this field? Even just around early childhood art education? And what do you see in the future that makes you hopeful?
MaryAnnFaubion Kohl: Oh, I'm so hopeful! As time has gone on, in my classroom years in the 70s and 80s, I started noticing that if the art was open ended, that's what we used to call it open ended art rather than process art. If the art was open ended, the kids were very focused, very quiet, very involved on task. But as soon as they did art, that was tapping my stuff, maybe half the class would be 100% with me, and the rest of them were like, oh, I can't wait to get this done. I want to please my teacher. So that's leading me to say that I wrote my first book called Scribble Art in 1985, After I retired from public school teaching. I took all of my favorite open ended art ideas and put them in one book, and it became a “thing.” It caught on with people, and it hadn't been done before, and I had no idea it was going to actually be a movement.
You know, I’ve got to say, why does this seem so important to me? It's first about honoring the child as a child, and when it's actually developmentally appropriate. Now I'm going to read a little a little statement; this is almost my lifetime goal to think about when you're working with little kids.
“I believe that art builds better humans; humans that will lead our civilization forward. Art contributes to encouraging children to grow to be society's problem solvers, society’s thinkers, inventors, and more, not just society's followers. Art is a place for children to learn to trust their ideas, to trust themselves, and to explore what is possible.” So if you have a three year old who's learning to think, learning to test ideas, that three year old is someday are going to be Emily and MaryAnn having a podcast talking about art. No, that three year old is going to be an adult who is a thinker, a leader. It sounds like we're like planting little seeds and we are and we're watering it, and then they bloom, and I want to see adults like that. Not not the sheep that follow, but the leaders of society.
Emily Garman: We talked earlier, you and I, about you having conversations and asking open-ended questions of the children about their art. But they converse with each other, too, and the adults guide them. And this isn't a conversation about whether this child's work is better than this other child's work, or them comparing each other, but talking to each other about the process, discussing things, sharing ideas and materials. That's part of what we want most for young kids to learn.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: They are looking at each other’s work and art, but mostly not. Mostly they are very focused on their own. But every now and then there will be a little voice that says, “I want to do what Katy did, she put blobs of cotton balls on her painting!” and we say, “Okay, let’s get some cotton balls out then.” So they do learn from each other, we're going to say it's experimenting, exploring and discovering. But there is some inspiration, and some people say, “oh, well, don't copy Katy. She's the only one who thought of cotton balls.” No—"Katy inspired me. I want cotton balls, too.” So there's a lot of that dynamic going on. Having a self-concept that strong and knowing that being unique is okay and that it's okay to, what adults call, “make mistakes.” But for kids, it's just learning through how did this happen and what am I going to change the next time I do it? But sharing and kindness to others is such a big deal.
Emily Garman: So you mentioned that first book that you created. You put your ideas together, and it sort of became a movement. And people liked the idea and started doing it. So I haven't really talked to you yet about your body of work, which is quite impressive. I mean, you sort of started this movement around process art that's really taken off.
And obviously there's a lot more research behind it now, and we can look at kids' brains and we understand what's happening a little bit more in their brains when they're doing this kind of art. But tell me more about your work. What is the best place for a teacher or a parent to get started with this kind of art and this way of thinking?
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: Well, let’s go back to having an art area of some sort if possible. If you don't have a table, it can be on the floor. But an area where kids can go and independently get materials out of a little shelf. If that's not possible, each time that, you want kids to be doing process art, just put some materials on the table. It's like we were saying blank paper and crayons today. Maybe we'll add some scissors and some glue. It doesn't have to be fancy, and it never has to be expensive. If you have the basic art materials, I say tempera paint. A lot of people can't spell tempera, and it's really cute. They say tempura, you know, like the little shrimp that are dipped and fried? Oh, really? We're painting with shrimp. That'll be fun. But maybe if can paint with leaves, we can paint with shrimp too. Oh, that's just silly. Okay, but very simple materials to get started. And it never has to be expensive.
But if you need some really fancy ideas, what is THIS!? It’s the old Scribble Art book that I started with in 1985. Totally updated to be absolute process art. And all of the illustrations are photographs of actual children doing actual process art. No models posing. And in the book, there are little icons up at the top of the pages that tell you with one star, two star or three stars, one is an easy project, two is a little bit more for the adult to have to do, but not much. And then three would be a pretty advanced kind of project. So you can choose what works for you and what level you feel you're at.
Emily Garman: We've talked about clay and drawing and crayons and mud and shaving cream and all sorts of things, too. But you have a book, Cooking Art. So doing the same thing with things that we might actually end up baking and eating, that's even more fun.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: Yeah. That one was an unusual book. I think it has a little bit more copying and adult ideas in it, because it's like food preparation that is sort of decorative and fun, but it's still very open ended. Like, what can you do to this little banana here? Food in art is also a big, concern for a lot of people. They say, well, there's so many people where food is expensive and it's hard to have the right amount and the right amount of nutrition. So don't use food with children to “waste” on art. I am a little softer on it than a lot of people, because I can cut the bottom off of a bunch of celery and dip that in paint and make prints because we weren’t going to eat that part of the celery anyway. Just enjoy food. And art is also a big, concern for a lot of people. They say, well, there's so many people where food is expensive and they it's hard to have the right amount and the right amount of nutrition. So don't use food with children to waste on art. I am a little softer on it than a lot of people, because I can cut the bottom off of a bunch of celery and dip that in paint and make prints because we're not going to eat that part of it anyway.
Emily Garman: Well, yeah, I can see that point, too. But. And this is another topic, but I know as a parent of an extremely, extremely picky eater, doing creative things with food was a way that I tried to get her interested in eating different foods. So you get pretty creative when you're trying to put a piece of fruit in your kid!
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: Oh, you're one of those tricky moms, I know my daughter was just visiting, she's in her 40s now, and she says, mom, I remember when you used to make Top Ramen noodles, and we thought we were just having Top Ramen, but in there was spinach, carrots, peas. I mean, I just put all this stuff in there, just like what you're saying. And then at the end, the bowl would have all these little peas in the bottom of the bowl!
Emily Garman: We're giving away all the good tricks! We can't share the secret vegetable hiding techniques!
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: I was thinking about communication. What is process art communicating, or what opportunities for communication does it have? And I think we've always known that art is like a different language. It's like something you can do where you're not talking. For kids who can draw, let's say it's their little dog may have passed away, and they're coloring with some dark colors and maybe drawing a dog, maybe not. But it’s an opportunity for that child to release some of the emotions they're having.
And if you are involved in a conversation like, tell me about your work today. “Well, my dog died and I'm sad.” Or maybe they won't even recognize that's what they're doing. But, depends on the age and individual personalities. But it's it is a chance to communicate in a way that's different than just speaking. And the storytelling that can come out, as far as communication goes, is, is pretty amazing.
I'm going to read a little sentence that says, “art goes beyond verbal language. It can communicate feelings that might not otherwise have a chance to be expressed. So it's an area that meets a need that needs to be expressed. There needs to be communication other than just talking.”
I know as a child, one time my first grade teacher said, “we're going to be making Mother's Day gifts today.” How is it that I remember this traumatic experience? And then the teacher said, bring a jar from home. We're going to make vases for your moms. Mothers. We didn't say mom, then. And the project was to walk up to the teacher's desk, choose a decal out of a box, and then the teacher put it on the jar. I had a little blue jar, and I chose a yellow duck. And she told me no, your mom would not like a yellow duck. She would like a rose. And I thought, that's probably what she would want, yes. Okay, so I pull the rose out, and then she puts it in water and puts it on the jar. Next I remember taking it home, and showing it to my mom and saying, “my teacher made this for you.” And my little heart was kind of broken, you know, and my mom was so sweet. She said, oh, that's so pretty, and she put a flower in it, and I was like, it just meant nothing to me except that I had hurt feelings.
Emily Garman: I think that's really interesting, because I know somebody who's a kindergarten teacher. And every year around this time, she is spending all her time on evenings and weekends making these things that she makes for her students to give to their parents. And it's supposed to be a gift from the kids, but all the kid did was pose for a photo, and then she prints the photo. And makes it into this really cool thing. But it's not something the child made. It's not from the kid at all. It's the same thing that you did. And this teacher is, you know, spending all her free time making these things for all her students.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: Absolutely. I mean, that's one of the best things about process art is that you don't have to work as hard. I mean, I spent some years cutting out 50 circles and having them in an art project. And why was I doing that? It's so true.
Emily Garman: What do you think about showing art to kids? Because I was thinking about taking kids to museums or showing them the work of the masters. And not to say, “all right, now we're going to paint the Mona Lisa together, kids,” but to show them what is possible. Or do you think that's useful? Because, at a young age, they can't really conceive of to eventually try to paint something like that, or is it inspirational?
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: Yes. I think if the right adult is taking children to a museum. Yes, it can be inspirational. So in what way? Well, let's just pick one of the greats. So let's just pick Van Gogh. Van Gogh and, how about Starry Night? Because a lot of people recognize that painting. So do we want all the kids to sit down now? Give them blue and yellow paint. Now you please make Starry Night. Whoa! I mean, that was a big deal for him. Do we really have to try? But I get that you can be inspired by a painting that way. However, you can also be inspired to make swirls, like on his Starry Night. There's stars with swirls. You can talk with them, you know, like with the kids. Like, what did you see about that painting that that inspires you? And I use that word with them. And you know, now we're going to paint. So what do you want to do?
But also, if you know anything about Van Gogh, he painted with a palette knife using very thick paint and squished it, squished it, squished it on his canvases. Well, let's get some popsicle sticks and some thick paint. Maybe finger paint. It's really thick. If Van Gogh loved thick, we love thick paint! So it doesn't have to be copying with the great master did. In fact, I wrote a whole book called Discovering Great Artists and another one called Great American Artists for Kids. And it's all about that. It's like being inspired by great art, maybe picking up on a technique, maybe enjoying similar colors, but not copying.
Emily Garman: But that's perfect because they get to experience. This is the medium, the paint he like to use. What can you make out of that? Because I think to teach a child that art, whether it ends up being visual art or dance or theater or photography or music, it's a way to express those feelings. Like you were talking about a child--maybe they just draw a bunch of black scribbles, and they're not connecting that to the fact that they're sad about their dog dying, but they're expressing that some way. They're helping the healing process that's happening within them. And to teach a child that they can create, that's beautiful.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: You know, it's another artist that I love for kids, it's Alexander Calder, who is famous for mobiles hanging from the ceiling or stabiles that are stable on the ground and come up and move. One of the easiest ones, that kids enjoy having seen Calder's work, is where everybody gets a rock and some pipe cleaners, and they wrap the pipe cleaners around the rock in whatever way, and they can add other materials to the pipe cleaners, and their little sculpture moves. It doesn’t look like anything Alexander Calder ever did, but it’s a sculpture that moves.
Emily Garman: And that’s not the point, to make something that looks like what he made.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: Right. He already did that. And Jackson Pollock is a great one for for little kids, if you show them one of his paintings, which is all drips and drops and speckles, and they're like, “I can do that!” And put some paper on the floor and let them drip paint. I'm not going to go with the throwing, but there can be a little of that.
Another one, take one of those children's wading pools. You know, the little blue ones. Seems like everyone has one in their life at some point. And put some paper in there, put some blobs of paint on the paper, then throw in some, maybe a golf ball and even an orange or a grapefruit. And then the kids pick up the pool and rock it back and forth, and the paint gets rolled here and there, and that can look very Jackson Pollock as well, like marble painting and a cake pan. If you haven't done that one, you can either dip the marbles in paint, put them in the cake pan on some paper, and you roll your little cake pan around and make make marks or put the paper in, put some blobs of paint, put a marble in and roll it back and forth. So those are the kinds of process art that you don't know what the product's going to be. It's just a technique. It's just an exploration.
Emily Garman: And that's something to do at any age. A two-year-old can do it with a little bit more help from an older child or an adult, and an eight-year-old by themselves.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: And, you know, it wasn't too long ago, a friend of mine was teaching middle school., and I went to her classroom, and in the corner we set up at process art table. Now, these these kids are, what, 12, 13, 14. And they're so cool. You know, they're just like, “oh, we did that in preschool.” And I said, yeah, but you're not in preschool anymore. This is going to be completely different. You just look about what's going to happen and they're like, really?
So it was fun to watch some of the so cool kids that didn't want to be uncool, start to get into it. And then they were super cool because they were, I can't I can't even remember what we were doing, but I think it did have the marble painting and something else. And they were just like, oh, salad spinner, that's what it was. It was a salad spinner with a paper and it put globs of paint in, and then spin that salad spinner and it's like it's at the county fair, you'll see those spin art things. And they were out of their minds with joy. And they're like, you know, teenagers! So let's not forget the older kids. They need that opportunity.
I can remember one workshop I did at an elementary school, and I had the older kids and, at the end of my presentation, it's like, okay, you know, there's five stations out there. You can go to each one. I'm not going to ring a bell when you're done at one, just go to another one that has room."
And then this little voice, “what are we supposed to make?” And I say, “I don't know, but I would like to see what you come up with and how you experiment.” And then the same little voice. “You mean you make anything?” Yes. You're free. Really. And that would be like your daughter’s age, like the 10/11 age group. Oh my gosh, they can't believe when they have freedom. Freedom to think, freedom to create. And they're never too old for that.
You know, you actually put it in a little question you sent me. If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about how artists taught, what would it be? And I love that question. Here's my magic wand. Adults, this is not about you. Step back, let it happen, and enjoy watching creativity come from within. The child not being something pushed into them. Let it come out on its own.
Emily Garman: Tell me if you can think of one thing, maybe not just one thing. But looking back over your career and all the teachers you've influenced, what's something that you're most proud of?
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: You know, I'm going to take it back to, what I'm really most proud of is that my own children, my little Hannah and my little Megan, who are now grown up adults, very creative adults, I might add; that they have the opportunity at home to have freedom in their art. And they talk about that now, you know, because of me. My daughter Hannah is a professional paper cutter and she writes children's musicals. My daughter Megan is an actor and does voiceovers for books. I mean, I wasn't intending for them to develop careers that were around the arts, but they both say that they became so confident in their creativity that it was almost a given for them to become entrepreneurial thinkers with their own ideas and their own direction. Now, that doesn't have to be a goal for everybody. It wasn't even my goal for my children. But yes, that is what I'm most proud of, that I was a mom who allowed creativity.
Emily Garman: Well, and I would wager that those are not the only two grown-ups who, as children, had this experience because of you or your work. Teachers who attended workshops; people who read your books took that home to their own kids. I certainly know before I ever met you or heard of you, I had heard the concept of process over product, probably through my child's preschool teacher, and that resonated deeply with me before I ever became a parent and was something that I was intentional about throughout my child's life so far. So I think your influence goes farther and wider than you could ever imagine.
MaryAnne Faubion Kohl: Well, I am very proud of that. And I do consider it a legacy of sorts. Thank you for saying that. It is a great thing to think back on. Maybe I can quit now.
Emily Garman: No way.
MaryAnn Faubion Kohl: No, I’m not done!
Emily Garman: MaryAnn, what a lovely conversation. We're so grateful for your time today. We've got all the information about how to find MaryAnn in the show notes, but you can learn more about MaryAnn and buy her books on GryphonHouse.com and on her own website at brightring.com. Thanks for joining us today on Early Childhood Chapters.
